Subject: Re: (usr-tc) V.92 - anyone there yet?

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 02:33:15 +0000

V.92 was posted for Beta last week (August 23, 2001).  I have asked for some
official words to submit to this list.  Anyone looking to be a part of the Beta
would need to fill out the Beta form on Total Service.

Min Requirements for V.92
HiPer DSP
HiPer ARC w/ 128MB
HiPer NMC
or
Multi-Span
New ARC or 56bit VPN ARC
333MHz NMC

Hardware Requirements for Multi-Span Blade (96-port card)
HiPer ARC w/ 128MB
HiPer NMC
Note: Max number of ports that these cards will handle is 450 ports. ( you could
add 4 multi-spans to a Total Control 1000 with 48 ports of HiPer DSP)
The new 333MHz NMC and New ARC will handle 672 ports.

More to follow.

Tom Goodman
RAS Specialist (United States)

"Randy Cosby" <[email-masked]> on 08/20/2001 12:34:40 PM

Please respond to [email-masked]

Sent by:  "Randy Cosby" <[email-masked]>

To:   [email-masked]
cc:    (Thomas Goodman/MW/US/3Com)
Subject:  (usr-tc) V.92 - anyone there yet?

Has anyone installed the V.92 software?  Can you give details of
performance, problems, how the upgrade is done, etc?
I'm also interested in hearing any experiences with the 96 port DSP's.  What
are the "practical" requirements (power, HARC, etc.) to run those?

I've been off the list of a while, so apologies if this has been discussed
before.

Randy Cosby
Developer Shed, Inc./InfoWest, Inc.
435-674-0165 x11
Fax: 435-674-9654
---
http://www.infowest.com
http://www.devshed.com

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From: Charles Sprickman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 03:48:22 +0000

Hi,

Is HiPer NMC actually necessary for v.92 to function?

I'm guessing that to force an upgrade to HiPer NMC that no mib support for
v.92 knobs will be in the next 486 NMC?  That would be bad.  I really have
no incentive other than this to upgrade my NMC cards.  They work just fine
:)

Charles

| Charles Sprickman                  | Internet Channel
| INCH System Administration Team    | (212)243-5200
| [email-masked]                     | [email-masked]

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From: Ed Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 05:55:17 +0000

Mr. Goodman,

Does 3com feel good about how they are going to distribute v.92? When others
are giving it away? and encouraging all the 3com ISPs to switch with some
nice incentives?

We have competitors that have v.92 and it didn't cost them a dime... 3com
needs to realize that we have paid handsomely for our equipment and if they
want ISP's to continue to support and stick with them they should be
considering upgrades for this stuff for free or relatively cheap. Oh and
please do not say "if you are under a support blah... blah... blah". You are
in the equipment business... we bought the equipment... not 3com's terrible
support... we do our own support and do a very good job of it I might add.

Oh and I am NOT alone on this one... 75% on this list feel the same way I
do. Some of which have done a lot in the past to help grow 3com with their
own support.

We have well over 2500 ports and we are NOT happy!

Also... we are STILL waiting on those 5 Palm Pilots we were promise 2 years
ago.

Thank you,

--
Ed Taylor

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
[email-masked]
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 8:29 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: (usr-tc) V.92 - anyone there yet?

V.92 was posted for Beta last week (August 23, 2001).  I have asked for some
official words to submit to this list.  Anyone looking to be a part of the
Beta
would need to fill out the Beta form on Total Service.

Hardware Requirements for Multi-Span Blade (96-port card)
HiPer ARC w/ 128MB
HiPer NMC
Note: Max number of ports that these cards will handle is 450 ports. ( you
could
add 4 multi-spans to a Total Control 1000 with 48 ports of HiPer DSP)
The new 333MHz NMC and New ARC will handle 672 ports.

More to follow.

Tom Goodman

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---

From: Bob Purdon - Lists <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:56:08 +0000

> Does 3com feel good about how they are going to distribute v.92? When
> others are giving it away? and encouraging all the 3com ISPs to switch
> with some nice incentives?

V.92 - we're still smarting over the bugs in the NETserver that were never
fixed.  We were told to buy a contract to get them fixed, so we did.  Then
we get told they'll never be fixed and to buy an ARC instead.  *Buy*?  We
paid for support to fix these things and get told the only way is to buy
another product?  We didn't care if 3COM decided to remedy the problem by
*giving* us ARC's, but of course that didn't happen.

> We have competitors that have v.92 and it didn't cost them a dime...

My honest opinion is that 3COM don't want to be in the RAS business.  
They charge like wounded bulls for support and then don't deliver what
they promise.  Warranty support was nigh on impossible for us to get, and
even now that case is still pending.  One warranty case was closed
recently without even consulting us, well before the problem was resolved
and now rather than refer to the previous case notes we're being forced to
go through the whole process from the start - again.

> Oh and I am NOT alone on this one... 75% on this list feel the same
> way I do.

No doubt.  The only reason we recently bought more 3COM was because it was
too cheap to turn down (a fully populated HiPer chassis at half Cisco
prices).  Needless to say we didn't buy it from 3COM, but from a reseller
who was stuck with it.

> We have well over 2500 ports and we are NOT happy!

A tad over 1000 ports here.

> Also... we are STILL waiting on those 5 Palm Pilots we were promise 2
> years ago.

We got ours, but that was before USR was bought by 3COM.  Back then local
support was good too.

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From: Mike Wilker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:41:09 +0000

I have both PM3s and Cisco AS5248s that were purchased at the same time as
my TotalControl Hiper systems and that won't ever see v.92 loaded onto them.
Some of my Hiper equipment just turned 3 years old, and the fact that it's
even able to migrate to the latest standards is something I value.  Now I'd
rather not have to pay for that, but after 3 years of use I don't think that
the replacement of 1 card to bring an entire chassis up to an entirely new
standard is such a terrible thing.  Maybe 3Com would consider a trade-in
program for the NMC.  It would cost considerably more to move all of my
ports to another vendor than it would to simply upgrade the NMC.

Mike Wilker
Director of Network Operations
Tiger Communications
   DBA Local Link USA, Globaleyes Comm, Protocom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Taylor" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 10:50 PM
Subject: RE: (usr-tc) V.92 - anyone there yet?

Mr. Goodman,

Thank you,

--
Ed Taylor

-----Original Message-----

More to follow.

Tom Goodman

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From: Jeff Mcadams <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:45:19 +0000

Also sprach Mike Wilker
>I have both PM3s and Cisco AS5248s that were purchased at the same time
>as my TotalControl Hiper systems and that won't ever see v.92 loaded
>onto them.  Some of my Hiper equipment just turned 3 years old, and the
>fact that it's even able to migrate to the latest standards is
>something I value.  Now I'd rather not have to pay for that, but after
>3 years of use I don't think that the replacement of 1 card to bring an
>entire chassis up to an entirely new standard is such a terrible thing.
>Maybe 3Com would consider a trade-in program for the NMC.  It would
>cost considerably more to move all of my ports to another vendor than
>it would to simply upgrade the NMC.

Check out Patton.

It was going to cost me considerably *less* to forklift upgrade to
Patton than to update cards and get support rapes^Wcontracts for the
Total Control gear to get V.92.  I don't think we're going to go that
route...but for different reasons.
-- 
Jeff McAdams                            Email: [email-masked]
Head Network Administrator              Voice: (502) 966-3848
IgLou Internet Services                        (800) 436-4456

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From: Stephen Amadei <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:22:38 +0000

> route...but for different reasons.

We're in the same boat, and Ariel now has a neat deal where they will
convert IMT (Intermachine Trunks) to 24 line PRI's using their SS7
Switch... so our final PRI cost was less than $300 for 24 lines... the
catch, we must use Ariel RAS equipment.  Big deal... it supports v.92 and
has a modem compatibility list a mile long... and the prices for the Ariel
equipment are fairly low.

Latest purchase of ports around here was _not_ 3Com.  Damn!  Now I have to
rewrite TCView...  ArielView?  ;-)

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.net CTO
Atlantic City, NJ

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From: Charles Sprickman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:41:10 +0000

>From their web page:

"In conjunction with all the above reasons to buy a RS2000, Ariel's recent
price reduction makes NOW the perfect time to purchase remote access
server equipment to help you start or expand your business. At just $2,376
for a 24-port, T1/PRI PCI card, you can't afford to pass on this
opportunity!"

But there's a guy here selling used DSP's for $1500 quite often...  That's
only $62/port.  And when you throw away your quads, you've got quite a bit
of room :)

Of course they'll probably EOL the T1 DSPs as they ramp up the DS3
cards...

C

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From: "Andrew (NetFlash System Administrator)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:40:31 +0000

You know something ED,  you have hit the nail right on the head with this
3COM stuff and upgrades and support. I agree with you on every you said
below.  It is just too bad that 3COM will not acknowledge you message.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Ed Taylor
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 11:51 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: (usr-tc) V.92 - anyone there yet?
Importance: High

Mr. Goodman,

Thank you,

--
Ed Taylor

-----Original Message-----

More to follow.

Tom Goodman

-

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From: Seth Jacobs <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:50:30 +0000

I don't really disagree with what being said here, but here we finally have
someone from 3Com offering to provide useful information.  Tom isn't the
cause of the problem.

Seth

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew (NetFlash System Administrator)" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: (usr-tc) V.92 - anyone there yet?

> Does 3com feel good about how they are going to distribute v.92? When
others
> Also... we are STILL waiting on those 5 Palm Pilots we were promise 2
years

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---

From: Jeff Mcadams <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:57:44 +0000

Also sprach Seth Jacobs
>I don't really disagree with what being said here, but here we finally
>have someone from 3Com offering to provide useful information.  Tom
>isn't the cause of the problem.

And I'll strongly "amen" this statement.

Tom has been absolutely *wonderful* to deal with over the years (we
dealt with him back before USR was purchased by 3Com), and has almost
always worked for the good of his customers...even taking battles very
strongly up the chain of command within 3Com.  Unfortunately, the chain
of command for support issues ends at Al Huefner and Irfan Ali.  These
people are the problem, not Tom.
-- 
Jeff McAdams                            Email: [email-masked]
Head Network Administrator              Voice: (502) 966-3848
IgLou Internet Services                        (800) 436-4456

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From: Ed Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:16:36 +0000

I agree... Tom has been ok (other than the Palms we were promised and never
received).

However, Tom is the one that posted the 'great deal'. So I felt he could
take our message back to 3com so they could stick it in their pipe. Or at
least do something for those of us who have stuck it out this long to show
their appreciation...

--
Edgar D. Taylor
President/CEO
FIRST USA Inc.
Voice: (800) 716-6190
Fax: (740) 695-7258
Email: [email-masked]
Web: http://www.1st.net
--
Simply 1st in Internet Solutions!
--

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Jeff Mcadams
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:54 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: (usr-tc) V.92 - anyone there yet?

Also sprach Seth Jacobs

-

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From: Dayton Internet <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:52:05 +0000

Mr. Goodman;

I am still waiting for replies to my 3 emails to the management of 3Com before I
do any more business with your company. I worked for 30 years in the computer
industry before starting Dayton Internet, and I worked for and with all the BIG
companies in the industry, IBM, Burroughs, Intel, NCR, Honeywell, ADP, EDP,
Univac, Cisco, ADDS, etc etc 

and I never ever saw a policy for preventing the distribution of repair software
to existing users as bad as the 3Com policy.

 --Rich Adams, President-Dayton Internet Services, Dayton, Ohio--
[email-masked]

-- 

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From: Bennie Warren <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 02:49:23 +0000

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
What is the price they are charging without the support contract? So far the
support has been pretty forward. Of course I haven't bought it yet. They
will come and install it. Then an engineer will come out and work with us
for a couple of days.

Bennie

> *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*

-- 
**************************************
Bennie Warren     
LemooreNet         
320 West D Street  
Lemoore, CA  93245 
Phone:  559.924.5909
Fax  559.924.9578  
[email-masked]
http://www.lemoorenet.com
**************************************

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From: Paul Farber <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:03:41 +0000

Patton is gonna upgrade the 200+ ports I got from them for $0... plus
support the units.

Needless to say the market will be FLOODED with 3COM gear when all the
ISP's leases come up (I have the first 96 of 312 leased ports coming up in
about 3 months... guess which RAS vendor will be getting a call from me to
replace the ports going back?  Beuhler?  Beuhler?  )

There should be an anonymous web page where ISP's can post the number of
ports replacing, and with what vendor to show 3COM that the jig is up.

-- 
Paul Farber
Farber Technology
[email-masked]
Ph  570-628-5303
Fax 570-628-5545

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From: Jeff Mcadams <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 05:22:47 +0000

Also sprach Paul Farber
>ISP's leases come up (I have the first 96 of 312 leased ports coming up
>in about 3 months... guess which RAS vendor will be getting a call from
>me to replace the ports going back?  Beuhler?  Beuhler?  )

We're thinking about Cisco...a bit more expensive than the Patton
offering...but some really cool extra capabilities come with it.

>There should be an anonymous web page where ISP's can post the number
>of ports replacing, and with what vendor to show 3COM that the jig is
>up.

Why anonymous?  I'd be happy to let them know what the final decision is
here if they'd even just accept my email address.  *shrug*  Its clear
that 3Com doesn't want to hear from their customers.

Did any of you all read the 10K?  Good grief!  Claflin and company
should be indicted!  I would think, based on the performance of 3Com as
a company, that they wouldn't be getting any bonus at all...I guess
that's what I get for having those pesky ethics.
-- 
Jeff McAdams                            Email: [email-masked]
Head Network Administrator              Voice: (502) 966-3848
IgLou Internet Services                        (800) 436-4456

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From: Paul Farber <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 06:44:02 +0000

One thing that got me to move on from 3COM is that most of the small mid
ISP's need RAS, not VoIP or wireless access etc etc etc..... but good,
reliable modem pools to feed the masses.

-- 
Paul Farber
Farber Technology
[email-masked]
Ph  570-628-5303
Fax 570-628-5545

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