Subject: (usr-tc) Various Vendors

From: Netadmin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 17:07:07 -0500

A wide variety of topics have been brought up lately. What are the lists users thoughts of other remote access products compared to 3com- Total Control? It seems the 3com is widely used products among the ISP forum. Any comments are appreciated.

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From: Dan Hollis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:00:28 +0000

> A wide variety of topics have been brought up lately. What are the lists users thoughts of other remote access products compared to 3com- Total Control? It seems the 3com is widely used products am…

Heres the ones ive personally used

Cisco AS5248
The good - excellent support
           excellent feature set
           'no one ever got fired for buying cisco'
The bad - IOS was never really designed for handling dialups and it shows
          Severely underpowered CPU (68030)
          'merely adequate' modem DSP code

Lucent PM3
The good - good feature set
           good tech support
The bad - Somewhat underpowered cpu
          'fair to good' modem DSP code
          ComOS can be flaky (spontaneous reboots etc)

3com Hiper
The good - good feature set
           blazingly fast CPU and architecture (overengineered? :)
           excellent modem code
The bad - terrible tech support

Ascend Max
The good - good to great modem code
           good feature set, minor annoyances on some features (eg DOVBS)
The bad - Somewhat underpowered cpu

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From: Brian Elfert <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:48:36 +0000

>           'merely adequate' modem DSP code

The 5248 is no longer sold by Cisco.  It's still officially supported, as
Cisco doesn't tend to EOL things for several years after end of sale.

The AS3648 and AS5300 both are replacements for the AS5248.  The AS5300 I
have uses about 3% CPU to server 30 or 40 calls.

Brian

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From: Brian <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 02:13:36 +0000

> The bad - terrible tech support

I hear tech support is good these days.  "support" however, as in
contracts and cost of support is another issue.

Also this forum blows away ascend-users.  If you own a TNT good luck
getting help.

> The bad - Somewhat underpowered cpu

majorly lame CLI on the TNT...........totally strange.

>  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

-----------------------------------------------------
Brian Feeny (BF304)     [email-masked]   
318-222-2638 x 109	http://www.shreve.net/~signal      
Network Administrator   ShreveNet Inc. (ASN 11881) 	      

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From: Dan Irvin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 02:45:16 +0000

We are considering moving about 30 PRIs from TCs and PM3s to
AS5300s.  We have one Crisco AS5300 up with 8 PRIs and use it mostly
for ISDN and are quite happy (Crisco tech support is excellent!).

My question is how do you find the modem performance on the
newer Crisco AS5300 relative to the TC/HPSP  and PM3 DSPs?

Thanks

-Dan

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From: Dan Hollis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 02:53:23 +0000

> have uses about 3% CPU to server 30 or 40 calls.

Yes AS53xx seems to have more adequate CPU, MIPS R4xxx right?
But 3com still has far more cpu power

As far as feature sets go cisco has by far the most complete

The modem code still doesnt seem to be anywhere near 3com's though

-Dan

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From: Brian <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 05:39:35 +0000

I think 3com is the best compromise right now.  They really don't have
many issues to resolve as far as I am concerned.  If they cleaned up their
support contract situation, ospf, and continue to work on their modem
code, I think they would be the definite #1.

The thing is, this industry is fierce.  3Com is adding and adding features
because you have to keep doing that, so you don't fall behind what the
competition is doing.  Everyone is adding VoIP, QoS, etc.  3Com can't stop
everything and just work on core things like OSPF/modem code, they have to
keep advancing or fall behind.  Corporate and Carriers want to see that
stuff like that is in the pipeline etc.  Their isn't an unlimited supply
of clue out there either, at any price, to work on things like developing
VoIP etc on a chassis.  

Its a tough deal, I can sympathize.  All we can hope is that the engineers
there are paid well and work nonstop.  Unfortunatly reliability isn't what
drives most these companies, its marketing and features and getting the
next version out just to say they have VoIP *today* etc, and who cares if
its all working yet.

Brian

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From: Brian Elfert <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 20:38:37 +0000

> newer Crisco AS5300 relative to the TC/HPSP  and PM3 DSPs?

We have quad modems rather than Hiper DSPs.  Customers pretty much got the
same or better connections on the AS5300.

We ran our PM3 with K56Flex code, and no V.90.  The problems we're seeing
are some K56Flex only modems only connect at V.34 to the Cisco.  Cisco
seems to have concentrated a lot more on V.90 than K56Flex, which is only
natural.

Brian

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From: Brian Elfert <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 20:46:53 +0000

> But 3com still has far more cpu power

I never said the Hiper ARC doesn't have more CPU power.  I just mentioned
that the current line of Cisco products has more than adequate CPU.
Someone was comparing a discontinued product against the 3Com stuff.

> The modem code still doesnt seem to be anywhere near 3com's though

I beg to differ.  I have quad modems, and my tests showed the Cisco
connects the same or better for those with V.90.  Obviously, x2 only
customers get screwed, but I'm keeping a Total Control rack for them.

I used to think USR/3Com modem code was the best, but not any more.

Brian

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From: Paul Farber <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 22:30:06 +0000

Yes they can.  Who in this list is seriously doing VOIP?  It sucks.  In a
few years it will work, but for now leave it in the beta testers hands.

Paul Farber
Farber Technology
[email-masked]
Ph  570-628-5303
Fax 570-628-5545

On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Brian wrote:
> 3Com can't stop everything and just work on core things like OSPF/modem
code, they have to keep advancing or fall behind.  

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From: Brian Elfert <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 01:31:36 +0000

> few years it will work, but for now leave it in the beta testers hands.

I understand Cisco uses VOIP to route calls overseas for 24x7 support. 
Cisco only uses USA call centers during the day in the US.  Overnight
calls are sent to Australia amongst other places. 

Brian

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From: Jeff Mcadams <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 02:48:04 +0000

Thus spake Brian Elfert
>calls are sent to Australia amongst other places. 

They've been doing this longer than VOIP existed as a widespread
concept, so unless they switched to a VOIP solution recently, its done
in a different manner.  I suspect ATM.
-- 
Jeff McAdams                            Email: [email-masked]
Head Network Administrator              Voice: (502) 966-3848
IgLou Internet Services                        (800) 436-4456

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From: Ronald Kushner <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 02:52:39 +0000

> calls are sent to Australia amongst other places.

Cisco really looks like they are clued in on VoIP, I noticed Cisco is now
pushing to deliver powered Ethernet ports so you can plug Ethernet based
Cisco telephones into their Ethernet switches and they will require no
external power whatsoever. If there is a VoIP revolution, Cisco is in place
to reap the rewards for having the products people need to execute the
revolution.

I see corporations with just one network, and it's going to be based on
Ethernet, providing switched voice, data and video all over IP. Corporations
all over are asking for this kind of stuff. I imagine 3Com is under pressure
to keep up with Cisco, which has quite a few VoIP solutions built into their
routers and switches. 3Com just doesn't have the resources Cisco has amassed
over the past few years. 

-Ron
GLISnet, Inc.
+1 810/939.9885

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From: Dan Hollis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 03:07:28 +0000

> I used to think USR/3Com modem code was the best, but not any more.

My experience indicates cisco modem code is overly conservative, favoring
lower connect speeds (trading off speed for stability)

-Dan

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From: Lists <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 03:11:00 +0000

> calls are sent to Australia amongst other places. 

As one in Australia, I know that some of our calls end up in the
USA.  VoIP would certainly explain why those calls sound pretty ordinary.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Purdon,                          Ground Floor, Marine Board Building
Technical Manager (Tas/Vic),                  1 Franklin Wharf, Tas 7000
Southern Internet Services.                            +61 (3) 6234 7444

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From: Martin Lathoud <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:49:48 +0000

> lower connect speeds (trading off speed for stability)

I have a crappy phone line at home (whereas the other one is connecting
50,666.. don't ask). With a rockwell V34:
-quad/dsp = connect 26,400 -> so many retrains it's not useable
-pm3 = 28,800 -> ditto
-cisco = 31,200/24000 fast and stable
So upload seems to be the problem, and only cisco is able to deal with it.
I tried with Sportster56k and results are the same.

Martin

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