Subject: (usr-tc) billing software

From: "Stainforth, Matthew" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:43:39 +0000

I'm half following this discussion about unlimited access offerings and
wondering what billing software those who don't do "unlimited" actually use.
I'd love to move us from unlimited to something like what Jeff is doing
since normal people wouldn't typically use more than 150-200 hours a month.
I've looked at a few packages but most of them seem to be based on radius
accounting which doesn't seem to be completely reliable.  On the other hand,
if you guys are using radius accounting for billing data, do you also use it
to limit concurrent logons?  I see a lot of people on the list saying radius
accounting isn't reliable enough to be used to control concurrency.  Just
wondering what the general concensus is...

Matthew Stainforth  ||  Technical Services Manager ||  BrunNet Inc.

-
 To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "[email-masked]"
 with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

---

From: Jeff Mcadams <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:57:52 +0000

Thus spake Stainforth, Matthew
>wondering what billing software those who don't do "unlimited" actually
>use.  I'd love to move us from unlimited to something like what Jeff is
>doing since normal people wouldn't typically use more than 150-200
>hours a month.  I've looked at a few packages but most of them seem to
>be based on radius accounting which doesn't seem to be completely
>reliable.  On the other hand, if you guys are using radius accounting
>for billing data, do you also use it to limit concurrent logons?  I see
>a lot of people on the list saying radius accounting isn't reliable
>enough to be used to control concurrency.  Just wondering what the
>general concensus is...

We have a home-rolled billing system...we do get the usage from RADIUS
accounting.  Basically we only use the stop records as they have all the
information that is needed to bill.  We *don't* use it for concurrency
checking because of the dangers that RADIUS based servers imply.  Ie, if
a start goes to one RADIUS server and the stop goes to the other for
some reason...stuff like that.  We do concurrency checking via a Perl
script with an SNMP module...with some fairly slick Perl scripting (I'm
not being arrogant here...I didn't write it :) we have a *VERY* low
incidence of false positives on duplicate checking...in fact, I haven't
seen any indication of any false positives.  There is some indicates of
false negatives...ie, people getting away with duplicate logins for a
period of time...but even that is pretty low...our script is pretty
accurate on that.  :)
-- 
Jeff McAdams                            Email: [email-masked]
Head Network Administrator              Voice: (502) 966-3848
IgLou Internet Services                        (800) 436-4456

-

---

From: "Lon R. Stockton, Jr." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:12:11 +0000

> wondering what billing software those who don't do "unlimited" actually use.

Radius stop records get stuck in PostgreSQL database on a linux box.
Monthly queries done and imported into *cough* Quicken accounting
software. Statements exported into email.

Warning: do not try this at home. Using Quicken was a 'quick and dirty'
thing I did at the very beginning to get it done when I wasn't really
expecting to get this large....and boy, is it dirty now. It officially
can't handle all of the accounts, so we've gotta do some mighty strange
things to make it work. I can't complain at the hair-pulling and tons
of extra work it causes, since it's rather like running a furniture
moving company and the only vehicle you have is a '86 Chevette.

Anyway, all the billing/accounts stuff is being moved into the same
PostgreSQL database that currently holds the call details, with a
few perl scripts to work the magic. Customers will access the data
directly as well with their web browsers. Not only their accounting
statements, but they'll be able to get their usage summaries as well
as being able to drill down to individual call levels and see all the
details. "It'll be cool", sez the guy who's writing the perl (me).

> since normal people wouldn't typically use more than 150-200 hours a month.

Over 3 years, the average of all users (including the dedicated ones
which, when they occasionally drop and show connect times of 45 days
and such...but excluding the calls under 3 minutes) is about 32 hours
per month.  32.  That's something I point out to people when they're
balking at my 150 hour limit.

Oh yeah, that reminds me....when I calculate people's monthly usage,
I exclude any call that is under three minutes in duration. As far
as line usage goes, the in-and-out-to-check-email calls don't matter
much. And it excludes ones where the connection was problematic as well.

> to limit concurrent logons?

I don't limit concurrent, but there is the issue about the reliability
of radius. My solution to that is to overengineer the radius server so
it can handle the load without dropping stuff, and then to simply eat
the few that get dropped. I record accounting-stops only, so if I drop
one, I've got no idea that the call ever happened. Occasional spot checks
don't reveal the few that get away to amount to much. Well below what
I'd call 'negligable'. (:

-

---

From: Brian Elfert <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:37:40 +0000

> if you guys are using radius accounting for billing data, do you also use it

We use Platypus which uses radius for the time logging.  How else could
you record time used, syslog?

If a radius stop record is missing, the customer just got a free call, not
a big deal.

> wondering what the general concensus is...

Conncurency control is a whole different deal.  A missing stop record
could cause a customer to not be able to login.

Brian

-