Subject: [USR-TC] Software Agreement

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:10:44 +0000

All

There have been a few posts where people are asking the list for licensed
software and some people taking a public risk by making arrangements to
send it.

I hope we can avoid legal issues that can be caused by such activity and
have attached copy of the license agreement that everyone must agree to
before downloading code, any code, off of TotalService.

IMPORTANT:  READ BEFORE INSTALLING THE SOFTWARE

  3COM END USER SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT

  YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE
  DOWNLOADING OR OTHERWISE INSTALLING THIS PRODUCT, THE USE OF WHICH IS
  LICENSED BY 3COM CORPORATION TO ITS CUSTOMERS FOR THEIR USE ONLY
  AS SET FORTH BELOW.  DOWNLOADING OR OTHERWISE INSTALLING ANY PART OF
  THE SOFTWARE AND DOCUMENTATION INDICATES THAT YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS
  AND CONDITIONS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF
  THIS AGREEMENT, DO NOT PROCEED WITH THE DOWNLOADING OR INSTALLATION
  OF THE SOFTWARE AND DO NOT CLICK ON THE I ACCEPT BUTTON.

  LICENSE:  3Com grants you a nonexclusive, nontransferable (except as
  specified herein) license to use the accompanying software program(s)
  in executable form (the "Software") and accompanying documentation
  (the "Documentation"), subject to the terms and restrictions set forth
  in this Agreement. You are not permitted to lease, rent, distribute or
  sublicense (except as specified herein) the Software or Documentation
  or to use the Software or Documentation in a time-sharing arrangement
  or in any other unauthorized manner.  Further, no license is granted
  to you in the human readable code of the Software (source code).
  Except as provided below, this Agreement does not grant you any rights
  to patents, copyrights, trade secrets, trademarks, or any other rights
  with respect to the Software or Documentation.

  If you were granted a license when you initially obtained the Software
  or any previous version of the Software, then such prior license shall
  govern your use of the Software.  If not, then, subject to the
  restrictions set forth herein, the Software is licensed to be used on
  ONE (1) personal computer or ONE (1) 3Com product, as applicable,
  owned by or leased to you, for your internal use.  You may reproduce
  and provide one (1) copy of the Software and Documentation for each
  such personal computer or 3Com product, as applicable, on which the
  Software is used as permitted hereunder. Otherwise, the Software and
  Documentation may be copied only as essential for backup or archive
  purposes in support of your use of the Software as permitted hereunder.
  Each copy of the Software and Documentation must contain 3Com's and its
  licensors' proprietary rights and copyright notices in the same form
  as on the original.  You agree not to remove or deface any portion of
  any legend provided on any licensed program or documentation delivered
  to you under this Agreement.

  Assignment; No Reverse Engineering:  You may transfer the Software,
  Documentation and the licenses granted herein to another party in the
  same country in which you obtained the Software and Documentation if
  the other party agrees in writing to accept and be bound by the terms
  and conditions of this Agreement. If you transfer the Software and
  Documentation, you must at the same time either transfer all copies of
  the Software and Documentation to the party or you must destroy any
  copies not transferred. Except as set forth above, you may not assign
  or transfer your rights under this Agreement.

  Modification, reverse engineering, reverse compiling, or disassembly
  of the Software is expressly prohibited. However, if you are a European
  Community ("EC") resident, information necessary to achieve
  interoperability of the Software with other programs within the meaning
  of the EC Directive on the Legal Protection of Computer Programs is
  available to you from 3Com upon written request.

  EXPORT RESTRICTIONS:  The Software, including the Documentation and
  all related technical data (and any copies thereof) (collectively
  "Technical Data"), is subject to United States Export control laws
  and may be subject to export or import regulations in other countries.
  In addition, the Technical Data covered by this Agreement may contain
  data encryption code which is unlawful to export or transfer from the
  United States or country where you legally obtained it without an
  approved U.S. Department of Commerce export license and appropriate
  foreign export or import license, as required.  You agree that you
  will not export or re-export the Technical Data (or any copies thereof)
  or any products utilizing the Technical Data in violation of any
  applicable laws or regulations of the United States or the country
  where you legally obtained it. You are responsible for obtaining
  any licenses to export, re-export or import the Technical Data.
  In addition to the above, the Product may not be used, exported or
  re-exported (i) into or to a national or resident of any country to
  which the U.S. has embargoed; or (ii) to any one on the U.S. Commerce
  Department's Table of Denial Orders or the U.S. Treasury Department's
  list of Specially Designated Nationals.

  Trade Secrets; Title:  You acknowledge and agree that the structure,
  sequence and organization of the Software are the valuable trade
  secrets of 3Com and its suppliers. You agree to hold such trade secrets
  in confidence. You further acknowledge and agree that ownership of,
  and title to, the Software and Documentation and all subsequent copies
  thereof regardless of the form or media are held by 3Com and its
  suppliers.

  UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT LEGENDS:  The Software, Documentation and any
  other technical data provided hereunder is commercial in nature and
  developed solely at private expense.  The Software is delivered as
  "Commercial Computer Software" as defined in DFARS 252.227-7014
  (June 1995) or as a commercial item as defined in FAR 2.101(a) and
  as such is provided with only such rights as are provided in this
  Agreement, which is 3Com's standard commercial license for the
  Software.  Technical data is provided with limited rights only as
  provided in DFAR 252.227-7015 (Nov. 1995) or FAR 52.227-14 (June 1987),
  whichever is applicable.

  TERM AND TERMINATION:  This Agreement and license will expire fifty
  (50) years from the date that you install the Software and
  Documentation, if it is not terminated earlier. You may terminate it
  at any time by destroying the Software and Documentation together with
  all copies and merged portions in any form. It will also terminate
  immediately if you fail to comply with any term or condition of this
  Agreement. Upon such termination you agree to destroy the Software
  and Documentation, together with all copies and merged portions in
  any form.

  LIMITED WARRANTIES AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY: All warranties and
  limitations of liability applicable to the Software are as stated on
  the Limited Warranty Card or in the product manual, whether in paper
  or electronic form, accompanying the Software.   Such warranties and
  limitations of liability are incorporated herein in their entirety by
  this reference.

  GOVERNING LAW:   This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the
  State of California, U.S.A. excluding its conflicts of laws principles
  and excluding the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the
  International Sale of Goods.

  SEVERABILITY:  In the event any provision of this Agreement is found
  to be invalid, illegal or unenforceable, the validity, legality and
  enforceability of any of the remaining provisions shall not in any
  way be affected or impaired and a valid, legal and enforceable
  provision of similar intent and economic impact shall be substituted
  therefor.

  ENTIRE AGREEMENT:  This Agreement sets forth the entire understanding
  and agreement between you and 3Com and supersedes all prior agreements,
  whether written or oral, with respect to the Software and
  Documentation, and may be amended only in a writing signed by both
  parties.

  Should you have any questions concerning this Agreement or if you
  desire to contact 3Com for any reason, please contact the 3Com
  subsidiary serving your country, or write: 3Com Corporation, Customer
  Support Information, 5400 Bayfront Plaza, Santa Clara, CA 95052

  3Com is a registered trademark of 3Com Corporation.
  3Com Corporation
  5400 Bayfront Plaza, P.O. Box 58145
  Santa Clara, CA 95052-8145
  (408) 326-5000
  Copyright 2001 © 3Com Corporation.  All rights reserved.

---

From: Lewis Bergman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:42:24 +0000

> before downloading code, any code, off of TotalService.
Another reason to think of some other NAS next time.

I believe you should abide by any license for software you use. At the same 
time, moves that CommWorks has made and are rumored to be making suggest that 
they believe their license scheme is or will be a major revenue source. When 
I bought my TC1000 I didn't realize that the software agreement would far 
surpass the cost of the equipment. 

Simply ridiculous.

I am investigating Lucent's take on such things (although I note you can even 
download some v.92 code without a contract) more diligently. $2500 a year for 
software upgrades is highway robbery. I will also research Patton to find 
ISP's luck with connections and reliability.

I don't agree with theft. No matter if it is a customer's or supplier's
-- 
Lewis Bergman
Texas Communications
4309 Maple St.
Abilene, TX 79602-8044
915-695-6962 ext 115

---

From: Jeff Mcadams <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:53:25 +0000

Also sprach Lewis Bergman

>> There have been a few posts where people are asking the list for
>> licensed software and some people taking a public risk by making
>> arrangements to send it.

>> I hope we can avoid legal issues that can be caused by such activity
>> and have attached copy of the license agreement that everyone must
>> agree to before downloading code, any code, off of TotalService.

>Another reason to think of some other NAS next time.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

>I believe you should abide by any license for software you use.

Although, there is some debate over whether "click-wrap" or
"shrink-wrap" licenses like this are legal or not, so it may be 3Com
(and virtually every other commercial software developer on the planet)
that's breaking the law here!  Actually...it wouldn't be breaking the
law, but the license agreement may very well not be enforceable.

Of course, there are plenty of other reasons not to use Total Control
gear in this day and age...and I'll not go into those.  :/

>I am investigating Lucent's take on such things (although I note you
>can even download some v.92 code without a contract) more diligently.
>$2500 a year for software upgrades is highway robbery. I will also
>research Patton to find ISP's luck with connections and reliability.

Don't forget Cisco.  I played with a AS5350...and its really quite nice.
Seamless Modem, ISDN, Fax, VoIP, and TDM mux, all in one box for about
the same price-per-port of a TC box, and much more reasonable support
policies than 3Com/CommWorks.
-- 
Jeff McAdams                            Email: [email-masked]
Head Network Administrator              Voice: (502) 966-3848
IgLou Internet Services                        (800) 436-4456

---

From: Todd Bertolozzi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:27:45 +0000

I couldn't resist in saying something since the 3com folk have piped up.

Cisco is FAR superior to Commworks when it comes to:

a) Their product

b) The software support

c) The technical support whether that be via TAC or just browsing through
their homepage.

I have used both products for many years now and inititally thought the 3com
product was awesome with it's high port density and their nifty snmp device
(Total Control Manager). After a couple years I began to miss Cisco's
reliabilty and their never ending plight to make sure the customer is happy.

On the 3com side I have seen nothing other then how they can make more
money. They should invest more of their resources in their technical
department then their accounting dept. How is it Cisco can allow customers
to freely download software and utilize resources that Commworks wants to
charge for?  Maybe because Cisco is assured that they know what customers
want and Commworks figures they better charge up the ying yang before
everyone switches vendors realizing that they no longer put their time and
resources into making a superior product.

BTW....many vendors will happily melt down the competitors products and do
some sort of port exchange.

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Jeff Mcadams
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:53 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [USR-TC] Software Agreement

Agreed wholeheartedly.

_______________________________________________
USR-TC mailing list
[email-masked]
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc

---

From: Jeff Garvas <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:26:26 +0000

If you needed a reason to push yourself over the edge and junk your 3com 
equipment, here it is.

I remember when "USR" was *the* name in modems.  Then 3crap came along
and screwed it all up.

I can assure you I won't be authorizing any additional 3com purchases.  I 
have had so much trouble with these units I've given up on expanding 
them.

I don't think I've ever seen a representative of a company post to a 
mailing list that you better not steal their software.  Maybe Mr. Goodman
should take back the constant complaints about 3com's crappy pricing
structure and convince his company to do something noble instead of
threatening an existing and/or potential customer base with legal
action.

Otherwise, its clearly obvious 3com is no longer the company of choice.

-Jeff

On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 04:11:58PM -0500 or thereabouts, [email-masked] wrote:
>   Copyright 2001 Â© 3Com Corporation.  All rights reserved.
> 
>

---

From: Support <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:54:09 +0000

I can chime in on the PATTON products.  First, my experience with the
company was excellent.  I've never met a company that bent over backwards so
much to please their customers.  There isn't a ranking high enough for them.
Top marks.

Second, the product.  The 29xx are designed for the dialup ISP and as such
are affordable, reliable and simple.  Setup was a snap - we had our first
unit answering calls in 10 minutes, literally.  Reliability, we ran the
Patton box for 87 days and had a 96% connection success over those 87 days
without a reboot or problem of any kind.  Considering we were replacing a
'reboot every three days' Equinox product, we were thrilled with it.  And
affordability, for ~5-10,000 new for 48 to 96 ports, the price is really
fair.  And support, it's simply free.  Free software, free phone, free
email.  It's built into the product.

We ended up not keeping the Patton because of no MPPC or STAC compression
and because the V.92 code was slow in coming.  I know it's not slow compared
to some, but they were advertising in December to buy their V.92 RAS, but at
present it's still Beta.  The lack of built in MPPC compression made
web-browsing much slower than our Equinox connected customers were used to,
and Patton also had no immediate plans to address that.  These two things,
unfortunately, made the Patton RAS unworkable for us on a technical point,
but on reliability - affordability and support, I give them as high marks as
possible.

The only bad (and in my opinion unfair) rap they have is a recent decision
to lower the price and remove the cross-ship warranty.  They reasoned that
not everyone wants or needs a cross-ship warranty, so they lowered the price
a bit and now offer a depot warranty.  If you want or need cross ship for
some problem, you have the option of paying ~$700 at that time.  Of course,
some people spin this into a rip off, but personally, I'd rather save my
$700 and only spend it if I need it.  Before, they units were always more
expensive and then if you needed the cross-ship warranty, it was already
pre-paid.

Todd Chamberlain
[email-masked]

----- Original Message ----- EDITED FOR BREVITY
From: "Jeff Mcadams" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:53 AM

---

From: Todd DeWitt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:03:41 +0000

Does anyone know if the TC needs any changes in config to answer DOV calls?
All our trunks are PRI and we have no issues answering pure ISDN calls.  I'm
just curious if we need to make any config changes for a customer placing a
DOVcall?

---

From: WayneG <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:34:14 +0000

> How is it Cisco can allow customers to freely download software
> and utilize resources that Commworks wants to charge for?

    There is no doubt that Cisco is superior in producing a solid router that can easily exceed ANY
possible need.  However, after using their Digital Modems as an ISP RAS solution, I realized that
although Cisco does routing VERY well, with excellent support, neither RAS nor CPE are their strong
points.
    TC1000 is an excellent RAS product, (and 3Com makes great CPE products.)  Their software
contract is expensive, but then again, so is Cisco's support.  Just because Cisco "allows" someone
under any service contract to download any IOS version, doesn't make it legal.  Cisco contract
requires that you purchase a separate support contract for EVERY piece of Cisco gear that you want
supported.  And Cisco licensing requires that you purchase a separate license for EVERY IOS in every
router.  These IOS versions can sometimes cost more than the router itself.
    So don't confuse Cisco's lack of enforcement as better policies.

    -Wayne

---

From: Todd Bertolozzi <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:55:35 +0000

As far as superior NAS gear the only thing Commworks has over Cisco is port
density...not reliability. I can't count the number of times a DSP has gone
out of wack or a NMC card that then requires someone to visit the site.
Many might not see this issue but when your network grows large...you will.
I equate cisco nas as install and forget about it whereas the TC1000 is
install, pray, and worry.  I'm tired of hearing "well...we have more options
then cisco so we're better". Yet...cisco somehow has figured out how to make
things work...not just give you "options".

Also...without a contract I opened a TAC case with cisco....they told me I
didn't have a contract but that they would be willing to help as much as
possible.  And they did....they narrowed down the problem and gave me the
only viable solutions to fix the problem.

Somehow I doubt I would get a tech from Commworks to do the same or even get
a person on the phone from them who knows more then the customer.  That's
NOT support...whether you're paying for it or not.

Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of WayneG
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:34 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [USR-TC] Software Agreement

> and utilize resources that Commworks wants to charge for?

    There is no doubt that Cisco is superior in producing a solid router
that can easily exceed ANY
possible need.  However, after using their Digital Modems as an ISP RAS
solution, I realized that
although Cisco does routing VERY well, with excellent support, neither RAS
nor CPE are their strong
points.
    TC1000 is an excellent RAS product, (and 3Com makes great CPE products.)
Their software
contract is expensive, but then again, so is Cisco's support.  Just because
Cisco "allows" someone
under any service contract to download any IOS version, doesn't make it
legal.  Cisco contract
requires that you purchase a separate support contract for EVERY piece of
Cisco gear that you want
supported.  And Cisco licensing requires that you purchase a separate
license for EVERY IOS in every
router.  These IOS versions can sometimes cost more than the router itself.
    So don't confuse Cisco's lack of enforcement as better policies.

    -Wayne

---

From: "Richard Ham (Mailing Lists)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:19:06 +0000

> just curious if we need to make any config changes for a customer
placing a

Todd,

>From my investigation and testing, you have to create a modem pool
with an indial number to tell the tc to answer the call as a data call
regardless of bearer capacity. Your netserver pri also seems to need
the daughter card.

The documentation for quads is completely useless in this regard, and
since thats all I have, I never did get this operational. Maybe Thomas
Goodman would help us out :)

I've searched high and low for more than a single paragraph of
info.....

Regards,

Richard

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:09:15 +0000

Sorry...should have specified my hardware.  We're using a
mix of HiperDSP/HiperARC and the new Multispan/ARC

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 07:19:05 +1000
 "Richard Ham \(Mailing Lists\)"
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> > Does anyone know if the TC needs any changes in config
> to answer DOV
> calls?
> > All our trunks are PRI and we have no issues answering
> pure ISDN
> calls.  I'm
> > just curious if we need to make any config changes for
> a customer
> placing a
> > DOVcall?
> 
> Todd,
> 

Todd

---

From: "Richard Ham (Lists)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:27:53 +0000

> mix of HiperDSP/HiperARC and the new Multispan/ARC

GRIN..... its like that!

Regards,

Richard

---

From: Jonathan Byrne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 03:37:15 +0000

> policies than 3Com/CommWorks.

We have an AS5300 and two AS5400s here.  Yes, they are very nice
gear.  The AS5350 is especially cool, because it's 1U and
can take up to 8 PRIs.

Definitely something to look at if you're RAS shopping.

-- 
Jonathan Byrne, CCNA 		Network Engineer
Global Online Japan Division	Exodus, A Cable and Wireless Company
Tel/fax				+81 3-4354-0293 / +81 3-4354-0171
Email				[email-masked]
http://www.gol.com/		http://www.exodus.co.jp/

---

From: Charles Sprickman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 04:47:04 +0000

On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, WayneG wrote:

> Just because Cisco "allows" someone under any service contract to
> download any IOS version, doesn't make it legal.  Cisco contract
> requires that you purchase a separate support contract for EVERY piece
> of Cisco gear that you want supported.  And Cisco licensing requires
> that you purchase a separate license for EVERY IOS in every router.
> These IOS versions can sometimes cost more than the router itself.

There's a big loophole though...  If a security problem arises (the ssh
DoS being the last), you get to belly up to the IOS buffet for free.  Just
call them and let them know you're running a vulnerable version and you
get a nice new fixed one that's up to date.

I don't know of any other vendor that does this...

Charles

---

From: Charles Sprickman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 05:00:20 +0000

Hi,

I was only able to get this working by having the telco set up an
additional number in our hunts.  After that, you have to config the DSP to
act on the dialed digit and force it as a digital call.  It works well,
but it's much easier on other equipment.  And yes, the docs are very
vague, and no paid support from 3Com will not yield the answer you seek :)

If you don't find it, I can dig up the exact location of the setting on
the dsp (need to boot to windows).

Charles

--
Charles Sprickman
[email-masked]

---

From: Support <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:28:39 +0000

<vent>That's the way it should be.  If there's a security breach, that's a
serious bug and you should get it fixed for free.  That should be basic
warrantly.  Charging for a 'bug fix' is ridiculous.  I fully understand
charging for extra features (like V.92 for example) that may not even have
been on the drawing board when the hardware was originally purchased, but to
charge for basic configuration software / drivers / bug fixes is ludicrous.

Can you imagine if other hardware companies like Lexmark or Canon charged
for printer drives for their Ink Jet printers?  Then you tell them that it
doesn't do something basic because of a bug in the driver (like not printing
red in scanned photos), and they charge you $200 for a driver upgrade again.

OK, </vent>

Todd Chamberlain
[email-masked]

---

From: Stephen Rivera <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:59:03 +0000

I'll ask in training tomorrow for you.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of
[email-masked]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:09 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [USR-TC] ISDN-DOV

Todd

---

From: Stephen Rivera <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:38:59 +0000

here's what i learned fro you guys today :)
Charles is correct and there must ne 2 DNIS numbers privisioned from the
telco.

configure- program settings- DNIS ACCESS CODES
ADD CALL TYPE
SET CALL 1 (dnis #)DIGIITAL (NUMBER MUST BE DEFINED EXACTLY AS TELCO
PROVIDED)
SET CALL 2 (DNIS #) NONE (# MUST BE EXACT)

BE SURE THAT THE DIAL IN DEVICE(S) ARE SET FOR THE DOV
AT COMMAND ATS69=32 (COURIER I-MODEM)

i SET IT UP IN THE LAB LIKE THIS TODAY AND IT WORKED FINE

GOOD LUCK

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Charles Sprickman
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:00 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [USR-TC] ISDN-DOV

Hi,

Charles

--
Charles Sprickman
[email-masked]

---

From: Stephen Rivera <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:39:15 +0000

Amen!! As I sit here in 3com Rolling Meadows facility I can only say that
3com's Total Control products are superior in their own way. Ofcourse the
support isnt free but as wayne explained lack of enforcement doent make
Cisco support policies better.

PS...expect version TCM4.7 in the next couple of months.

FYI: Another thing to consider as I talk to the guys at 3com is...
As much as we would like to see responses from 3com techs on this list
its just not their job. 3com techs are available at the commworks user
forum. Many of the responses that come from the 3com employees are
done on their own time and we should appreciate that...So be easy on them.
As I have been informed thats why they havent been adding in on your tech
questions. They dont appreciate the email beatings they take for 3com...They
are employees not owners or decision makers for the items that are
complained about on this list. So lets keep that in mind when they do take
the time to help us out.

-----Original Message-----

    -Wayne

---

From: Stephen Amadei <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:51:15 +0000

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Stephen Rivera wrote:

> forum.

Where is the forum at exactly?  And how much does it cost?

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.NET!  CTO
Atlantic City, NJ

---

From: V <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:23:28 +0000

http://userforums.commworks.com/index.cfm?Type=NA&Id=guest

-v

---

From: Stephen Rivera <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:35:27 +0000

TOTALSERVICE.COMMWORKS.COM

REGISTER FOR USER NAME (FREE)
lOGIN

CLICK ON FORUMS

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Stephen Amadei
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:51 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [USR-TC] Software Agreement- RE

					----Steve
Stephen Amadei
Dandy.NET!  CTO
Atlantic City, NJ

---

From: Todd DeWitt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:51:03 +0000

What is the significance of the two DNIS?

---

From: Jeff Mcadams <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:47:45 +0000

Also sprach Stephen Rivera
>3com's Total Control products are superior in their own way.

I remain unconvinced.  I used to believe that, but I believe that they
ahve been eclipsed at this point.  So we agree to disagree.

>its just not their job.

But it used to be (at least I believe it was).  3Com used to find this
list to be a great way to communicate with their customers and
power-users and to get feedback from them.  What changed?  Not the list.

>3com techs are available at the commworks user forum.

I'd love to participate there, but I've been banned from them Apparently,
because I posted completely publically available information (DNS
responses and an SMTP exchange with a 3Com mail server that was listed
as the MX for 3com.com).  3Com network security (I believe that was the
name of the department) claimed that I posted proprietary and security
sensitive information.  *shrug*  What I posted was public, and
represented no security threat...but it did paint 3Com in a bad light.

>Many of the responses that come from the 3com employees are

And I do...very much.  I don't think you'll be able to find any place
that I have ever maligned a 3Com employee that participates on this
list...indeed, you'll probably find that I've gone out of my way over
the years to applaud their efforts and expressed my respect for them.
My attitude in this hasn't changed.  I'd even go so far as to say that I
probably have better and more respect for the techs on this list than
many of the other people on the list...I've met several of them in
person, and have nothing but good to say about them.  Its the company
that they work for, and the management of said company, that is the problem.
Unfortunately, that probably makes them uncomfortable, and I apologize
for that.

All I can say to the employees that get this mail is, "I hope you get
out before 3Com screws you over too.  I truly do wish the best for you."
-- 
Jeff McAdams                            Email: [email-masked]
Head Network Administrator              Voice: (502) 966-3848
IgLou Internet Services                        (800) 436-4456

---

From: Charles Sprickman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:53:30 +0000

One is your "normal" number for analog and 64K ISDN channels, the other is
for anyone wishing to do DOV or 56K ISDN channels.  The 3Com can't
autodetect this like every other RAS can, so you need the second number.
You config the DSP card/quad to handle the second DNIS as a 56K digital
connection.  If you don't do this your DoV customers will get analog modem
tones...

Charles

--
Charles Sprickman
[email-masked]

---

From: Todd DeWitt <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:22:22 +0000

This POP has several local numbers that our users dial for access.  Would I
have to define all these numbers in the DNIS options as digital and then
have Verizon assign a new one that is DOV?

Also, we have multiple trunk groups going into this POP each with their own
number.  Could we use just one of the trunk numbers as the DOV DNIS?

---

From: Charles Sprickman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 16:52:38 +0000

> have Verizon assign a new one that is DOV?

That's a good question...  We didn't do much ISDN, and we were located in
Manhattan, so I only had to do one number.  I would imagine you'd need
another number for every area you serve.  Rumor is there's another way to
do it, but I don't know it. :)

The problem is that not too many areas have the kind of billing NYC does
(DoV incurs no per minute charges).

Charles