Subject: RE: [USR-TC] v.92... 3com's ripoff/joke plan

From: Ed Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:44:31 +0000

Mark,

Yes it was nice when this Forum was for support of 3com (actually USR)
products. I remember the days in which people such as Jeff McAdams were
posting helpful solutions almost daily.

However, the reason you see the decline of this forum is because of
3com's lack of customer care. 3com's overpricing and 3com's lack of
valid and cost effective support for their products.

You will see more and more negativity on this forum as 3com continues.
If you are currently unaffected then it is because you are either very
lucky, a favored insider or not been with 3com that long to realize how
they have changed from the USR days. What they are doing is simply
wrong... and ISP's will not stand for it. Guaranteed!

--
Edgar D. Taylor
President/CEO
FIRST USA Inc.
Voice: (800)716-6190
Email: [email-masked]
Web: www.1st.net
--

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Thornton [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:36 PM
To: Ed Taylor
Subject: Re: [USR-TC] v.92... 3com's ripoff/joke plan

V.92 from 3Com or your favorite distributor is not an additional cost.
It comes with a support contract, whether it be a software only or full
support contract. That has always been the position of 3Com and I have
found evidence of that by searching my archives of the rantings on this
list. Get it right.

The support contracts, whether software only or full support are based
on the number of ports. This makes sense for the hardware support but
less so for the software only. If you can replace the number of ports in
a 3Com chassis with a new unit for a price point relative to the
software only support contract then go for it. Stop whining and just do
it.

I much prefered this list when it was a forum for exchange of solutions
and support for 3Com/USR equipment. As it stands now it has become a
forum of Patton referals so that guys who have Patton's can assure
themselves of free support by keeping the sales chain full. My next
course of action this afternoon is determining how to get off this list.
I thought offering frank information would help draw this discussion to
a close but that has not been the case. If you want to whine please do
so in your own office.

Mark Thornton
San Marcos Internet, Inc
512-393-5300

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Taylor" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: [USR-TC] v.92... 3com's ripoff/joke plan

> Thomas,
>
> You stated to me it is PER PORT v.92. You stated this and I have it 
> recorded.
>
> Are you going to tell this list that is not the case?
>
> Does 3com have any more Smoke and Mirrors? You are making many people 
> upset... (those that still remain with 3com that is)
>
> --
> Edgar D. Taylor
> President/CEO
> FIRST USA Inc.
> Voice: (800)716-6190
> Email: [email-masked]
> Web: www.1st.net
> --
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:13 PM
> To: Ed Taylor
> Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: [USR-TC] v.92... 3com's ripoff/joke plan
>
>
>
>
>
> No,
>
> V.92 is part of TCS 4.5 which will be posted this week.  A software 
> contract would allow you to download the code.  There is no charge 
> over the software contract for V.92.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> "Ed Taylor" <[email-masked]>@mailman.xmission.com on 02/26/2002 11:59:09 
> AM
>
> Sent by:  [email-masked]
>
>
> To:   <[email-masked]>
> cc:   <[email-masked]>
> Subject:  RE: [USR-TC] v.92... 3com's ripoff/joke plan
>
>
> Yes you would need to pay an extra $2700 for the v.92 Software update.

> It is calculated per port...
>
> It's a another 3com classic ripoff.
>
> --
> Edgar D. Taylor
> President/CEO
> FIRST USA Inc.
> Voice: (800)716-6190
> Email: [email-masked]
> Web: www.1st.net
> --
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> USR-TC mailing list
> [email-masked] 
> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> USR-TC mailing list
> [email-masked] 
> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc

---

From: Ed Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:09:43 +0000

Mark Thorton wrote:
"I understand Jeff's issues with 3Com and I agree with him and many
others that 3Com is managed by a group of spineless twits with minimal
understanding of customer relations"

>So you are also upset with the way 3com has been doing business as of
late with ISP's. Good...

Mark Thorton wrote:
"I'm not going to moan about the changing fortunes of business for
providers."

>Mark, our fortune is very good... that has nothing to do with 3com's
practices. 

Mark Thorton wrote:
"Mr. Goodman is the only 3Com employee who I recall has been pleasant
and honest with me over the years and I hate seeing him painted with the
same brush as the rest of the company but I guess that runs with the
territory."

>Please understand Mr. Goodman is a salesperson. His job is to be liked
and 'seem' to be on the side of the customer. You may like him and
believe he is the ONE guy who has stuck by our(your) side but I can
assure you it is his job to make ISP's comfortable. Bottomline is
simple... the more 3com soaks out of the ISP the more the salesperson
makes.

--
Edgar D. Taylor
President/CEO
FIRST USA Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Thornton [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:55 PM
To: Ed Taylor
Subject: Re: [USR-TC] v.92... 3com's ripoff/joke plan

I've been on this platform for 6 years and it has been the backbone of
the success of my business. I'm not going to moan about the changing
fortunes of business for providers. I understand Jeff's issues with 3Com
and I agree with him and many others that 3Com is managed by a group of
spineless twits with minimal understanding of customer relations. That
doesn't change the fact the equipment keeps making me money and that I
no longer have to deal with them anyway. Mr. Goodman is the only 3Com
employee who I recall has been pleasant and honest with me over the
years and I hate seeing him painted with the same brush as the rest of
the company but I guess that runs with the territory. I have long
suspected that the seperation of the support function from 3Com to
outside providers was something of a palace coup to preserve the
company. There was obviously no way to get rid of the problem managers
so they just took away the product they were managing and moved to to
someone else. The inside story on that bit of intrigue is bound to be
juicy.

Mark Thornton
San Marcos Internet, Inc
512-393-5300

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:16:37 +0000

Hi John,
I would definitely pursue getting your HiperNMC because the 486 NMC cards
are End-of-Life! That means if it breaks you CANNOT get it replaced or
repaired. If it breaks take it out of your chassis and use it as a doorstop
or take it skeet-shooting and use it as a clay pigeon.
The 486 NMC cards are two generations old, having been replaced by the
HiperNMC and the NMC(333). You can identify the 486 NMC through an Inventory
in Total Control Manager software or by looking at the front of the card:
The 486 NMC cards will say in white letters "Network Mgt Card", the Hiper
NMC will say "Hiper NMC" and the NMC(333) will say "NMC".
Thanks, Steve
Solunet TAC

-----Original Message-----
From: John Mies [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 7:11 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [USR-TC] v.92... 3com's ripoff/joke plan

After a few emails from members of this group, I discovered that the vendor 
I bought this chassis from in Feb. 1999 slipped me a 486 NMC rather than a 
Hiper NMC. I notified the vendor about this, and they admitted I should 
have gotten a Hiper NMC, but have heard no more from them. If I don't get a 
replacement from them, I'll divulge their name so they can avoid doing 
business with this company.

At 11:21 AM 3/7/02 -0800, you wrote:

>This isn't to bad.. It could be alot worse.  $750 to upgrade the ARCs is a
>good price, I think they go for between $3k and $4k new.  (wont find these
>newer ones on the used market I bet)  and Upping the NMC for $2500 is a
great
>deal.. Who are you getting them through?  My sources quoted me a little
>higher..
>
>-Steve
>
>On Thursday 07 March 2002 10:59 am, you wrote:
> > I just received the word today from my support people what it would take
to
> > upgrade to v.92. I bought my chassis in February, 1999.
> >
> > 1. Need to send the current ARC in for memory upgrade to 128. Memory
needs
> > to be soldered in. Cost - $750. Will give me a loaner ARC for a $2500
> > deposit.
> >
> > 2. Need to upgrade (replace) the 486 NMC to Pentium. Cost - $2,500.
> >
> > 3. Newest software version (I already downloaded it from my current
support
> > plan).
> >
> > Total cost to upgrade: $3,250.
> >
> > At 12:21 PM 2/26/02 -0600, WayneG wrote:
> > >Actually that's incorrect.
> > >     It will only cost the price of a software-only service contract
for a
> > >base chassis, which is around $650-$700.  I find this to be a
reasonable
> > >cost, considering the glut of used TC equipment (super low cost)
> > > available.
> > >
> > >     -Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >Cc: <[email-masked]>
> > >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:59 AM