Subject: (usr-tc) 3Com, Please Address This

From: Greg Coffey <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:36:39 +0000

Enclosed is some dialogue with a customer of mine.

************
Bill, thanks for the feedback.  Trib uses Ascend servers for their modems.
We use 3Com (merged with USR) exclusively.  We've noted that some
subscribers that dial in using 3Com modems connect FASTER with the Ascend
than the 3Com.  In fact, they never connect >33.6 with the 3Com servers but
consistently with the Ascends at a v.90 rate.  I pointed out the problem to
3Com about a year ago and there was not much interest on their part at the
time.  A couple months ago, it came up again.  This time there was more
interest and discussion.  3Com tells me that there is a bug in the Ascend
server software that permits this anomaly.  The number of subscribers that
this impacts is small (I believe), though I've not really spent much time
regarding it.  3Com told me earlier that if they fixed the software, it
would break other modems connect rates and even connectivity.  One of my
techs (lives in Mills) can connect to Trib from home under the same
circumstances as you.  I gave him a Courier v.everything to try last week
with the latest firmware.  Same results as his Sportster model.  We are
running current software on our end too.  We just spent thousands to
upgrade our quad modems to the newer hiper design, no change.  We added a
hiperarc, again newer design and, again, thousands more invested.  No
change.  We did dump the Sportster modem registers and send them to a 3Com
engineer both a year ago and more recently.  I've not heard anything about
it for about a month since the last time it came up.  I've looked at Ascend
equipment but so far have stayed with 3Com.  Baffles me too why brand-x
modems work better with brand-y's servers.  Why brand-x can't or won't
resolve the issue baffles me too.  The 3Com servers are not junk.  We do
have lots of subscribers that can connect to our servers and getting v.90
connection rates.  I think we've dealt with maybe 6 or so people that are
in your situation.  Perhaps the number is higher but they aren't aware of
it.  I don't have an answer for you at this point but will forward this to
3Com.  

At 08:15 PM 9/28/99 -0600, you wrote:
>I signed up today and got onto your system.
>
>It is only a few hours, but so far I'm not impressed with the speed over
>Trib.com.
>
>First of all, I cannot connect at as fast a speed.
>
>I have a USR Sportster Voice 56k v.90 modem model 00178501 with the latest
>drivers and firmware.
>
>With trib.com, I can connect sometimes @ 45,333 and always @ 37,333.
>
>I tried your 3 numbers:
>
>       234-2088         26,400 most of the time,  28,800 sometimes.
>       234-6324         same
>       266-4165          31,200 all the time.
>
>I tried several file download tests between the two systems and trib won
>handily.
>
>I will do some more comparing over the next few days, but it isn't what I
>was hoping for.
>
>If you have any other ideas, I would love to hear them.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bill xxxxx
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Greg Coffey <[email-masked]>
>To: Bill 
>Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 8:45 AM
>Subject: Re:
>
>
>>We have 3 separate T1's to the Internet and are getting a fract T3 within
>>two months.  You are welcome to try us and compare for yourself.  Sign up
>>online or come by the store.  If you don't like our service, I will refund
>>your fee for the month.  We are in the process of a major upgrade that
>>takes place on September 20th.  That will make us even better than we are
>now.
>>
>>
>>At 06:48 AM 9/10/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>>I am in Casper - in the Sunrise 8 area.
>>>
>>>I am looking for bandwidth to the net overall.
>>>
>>>I can connect @ 37,333 to Trib and maintain connection.
>>>
>>>I can connect @ around 45,000, but the connection is not stable.

Thanks,

Greg Coffey, Visionary Communications  V 307-234-5443  F 307-234-5446 
=====================================================================
100 N. Center St., Casper, WY  82601     WWW.VCN.COM         

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From: Ed <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:52:52 +0000

Greg Coffey wrote:
"Perhaps the number is higher but they aren't aware of it.  I don't have an
answer for you at this point but will forward this to 3Com"

My 2 Cents:
It is higher. This is the same subject I raised about a month ago on this
list. We have tested this and 3com is supposed to be working on a fix for it
however it seems they have now pushed it to the back burners once again.
They even developed a non-public alpha code to try to resolve it.

No doubt in some circumstances Ascends work better. We have tested on the
same PRI line hooked into the 3com and then moved it to the Ascend. The
customers are able to get V.90 more often on the Ascends than on the 3com's.
This even happens with 3com client modems.

We screamed about this discovery and it seemed 3com was sincerely concerned
but now I am not so certain it wasn't just to appease us.

If I were 3com I would be a little more concerned with this... but thats me.
I can say we won't wait forever for a fix. Other technologies are going to
overtake V90 before they resolve it, it seems.

Ed

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Coffey <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 11:28 PM
Subject: (usr-tc) 3Com, Please Address This

************

Thanks,

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From: Brian Gordon <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:09:35 +0000

This is not consistent with my finding at all.  I have a courier and get
49,300 every time flawlessly to my total control dsp equip.  Looks like a
telco issue if you ask me.

Just my two sense.

------------------------------------
Brian Gordon
MCP, A+, Network +
Network Administrator
Westelcom Internet
518.566.6726 Voice
419.831.9137 Fax
http://www.westelcom.com
[email-masked]
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Coffey <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 11:28 PM
Subject: (usr-tc) 3Com, Please Address This

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From: Kevin Benton <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:29:04 +0000

> They even developed a non-public alpha code to try to resolve it.

yadda yadda yadda...  Rest deleted.

Do you guys have cases open with 3Com about this?  I would be happy to
help push this issue as another 3Com customer with my NC, however, there's
little I can do to help if I don't have something I can give him...  I'm
not interested in working on your case for you but I do want our equipment
to be able to handle calls as well or better than Ascend product.

Kevin

E-Mail:  [email-masked]
Web:     http://users.sota-oh.com/~s1kevin/
Unsolicited advertisements processing fee: $50 subject to change without notice

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:03:56 +0000

Phone lines!

If you have customers going through SLC or line multiplexors, or long runs
or old switches or any other of number of line impairments they will not
get the 52K they *THINK* they are paying for.

If you go from QUADS to ARC's and still have the same poor perf then it's
most likely lines.

Paul Farber
Farber Technology
[email-masked]
Ph  570-628-5303
Fax 570-628-5545

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From: Ed <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:49:19 +0000

Paul Farber worte:
"If you have customers going through SLC or line multiplexors, or long runs
or old switches or any other of number of line impairments they will not
get the 52K they *THINK* they are paying for."

Response:
No as stated before we know without a doubt in these scenarios it is NOT
Phone Lines. Please read the letters completely before responding and
confusing others.

As stated before we have used the same PRI line and switched it between the
Ascend box and the 3com box. Used the same client location and modem. The
client is using a 3com modem and has the latest code revisions and drivers.
When they connect to the Ascend they get V90 and when they connect to the
3com no V90. It's that simple...

Again 3com has acknowledged the issue.

Ed

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: (usr-tc) 3Com, Please Address This

Phone lines!

Paul Farber
Farber Technology
[email-masked]
Ph  570-628-5303
Fax 570-628-5545

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From: Greg Coffey <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:55:21 +0000

There are some rare instances where the customer calling in using the SAME 
computer, software, modem and phone line can connect to Ascend boxes at 
v.90 and not to 3Coms.  In ALL instances that I have seen, the client was 
using a 3Com modem to dial.

> > this impacts is small (I believe), though I've not really spent much time

Thanks, Greg Coffey                     <[email-masked]>
Visionary Communications V 307-234-5443 F 307-234-5446
100 N. Center, Casper, WY  82601         www.vcn.com

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From: Greg Coffey <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:12:31 +0000

It tis not a phone line issue.  3Com has admitted there is an issue here 
and is aware of what the cause is.  I get a message a month regarding this 
topic from customers.  When it comes up, the subscribers are usually on the 
fringe of the 56k area.  My biggest competitor runs Ascends and when they 
call it, they get a FortySomething connect just about every time.  It is a 
true connect too, we've tested the throughput.  They have NEVER obtained a 
v.90 connect through us at the same location using the same PC, modem and 
phone line.  We currently have 12 CT1 spans running in Casper.  Some are on 
quads with netservers and others are hiperarcs with hiperdsps.  We get lots 
of v90 connects on all the chassis.

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From: Martin Lathoud <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:08:24 +0000

> of v90 connects on all the chassis.

It's a phone line issue not properly addressed by 3Com modem code. I
deleted the mail where John Powell explained what exactly was wrong with
the line, but he said (a year ago?) that a fix was worked on..
I don't know about Ascend, but PM3 modem code is way worse than 3Com, so
stick with it and be patient :-) It seems that Cisco modem code is much
better at this, too.

Martin

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